Episode 25: Emily Casson – Effective digital fundraising strategies during the pandemic

 

As most people have spent more time looking at their phones and tablets than ever before in recent months, digital fundraising has become more important than ever.

If you’re a regular listener to this podcast, you’re probably already aware of the phenomenal track record achieved by Cats Protection in digital fundraising over the last few years, and Emily Casson’s down to earth approach which has helped achieve it. Emily is the charities’ Digital Marketing Manager and in episodes 15 and 16, she explained the strategies that have helped continue to grow, winning awards along the way. Her over-arching approach is ‘think big, start small, scale quickly or fail fast.’ This philosophy has continued to generate results during the last few months.

So in this episode, I sought Emily’s advice on what charities of any size can be doing in terms of digital fundraising during the pandemic. Emily shared her advice on a range of topics, including Facebook advertising – in April her charity saw total donations quadruple in this area – as well as email and Facebook Lives.

If you found Episode 25 helpful, please do subscribe today, so you won’t miss out on all the other episodes we’ve got lined up; and also, I’d be really grateful if you could take a moment to share it on with your colleagues or on social media. Thank you!

If you want to get in touch, Emily and I would love to hear from you – we’re both on LinkedIn, and on twitter Emily is @EmilyCasson and I’m @woods_rob.

Takeaways

  • FACEBOOK ADVERTISING – Because during the lockdown, people are spending more time than ever looking at their phones, and because they have not stopped caring about causes that are important to them, Emily has seen this channel doing really well.
  • ADAPT – Charities doing well in this area are thinking carefully about what the audience actually wants. What has changed in their lives during these difficult times? How can your content meet these needs and interests?
  • LEAD GENERATION – While some people can give now, some still care but can’t give right now. So how can you still help them get involved anyway? For instance, Cats Protection offer people the chance to sign up for an email journey to find out about the meaning of various cat behaviours.
  • TEST – If you’re thinking of trying something like this, start small and then scale up when you see what works.
  • EMAIL MARKETING – Email open rates have rocketed up in the last few months. How can you make use of this? eg send enough emails, but importantly, keep them interesting – eg include short films, vary the topic and style etc.
  • GOOD NEWS – There is a lot of bad news around, so people are responding positively to good news stories – someone you’ve helped, or pictures done by children you work with etc.
  • USE HOME SHOT FILM – Don’t be afraid to share rough and ready films, made with your smart phone.
  • INVITE THEIR INPUT – Invite supporters to share their stories, films, pictures, memories etc. They are part of the tribe / family that cares about this issue, so treat them as such, rather than as people separate from your charity who give money to fund stuff.
  • TRY FACEBOOK LIVES – This is a great way to engage people who may not yet be supporting. A great element of this is people can interact through the chat box in real time. Remember, you can add a donate button.
  • PLAN AND TEST – Give thought to how you can make it interesting and interactive.
  • BE BRAVE – Above all, be willing to have a go – it’s OK to show your human side. People don’t expect it to be slick and are generally forgiving of mistakes in these on-line techniques.

Further Resources

If you found this episode helpful, the full film interview – including shrewd advice Emily goes on to give about practical website strategies; and working with streamers / gamers / key online influencers – in the Bright Spot Members Club. Find out more here.

If you’d like more powerful strategies to help you raise funds during the pandemic, then do check out my new free E-book: Power Through The Pandemic – Seven ways to raise high value income, even now. You can download it for FREE here: brightspotfundraising.co.uk/power

Key Quotes from Emily

‘Think about what the audience want. What has changed in their lives? How can you give added value?’

Emily Casson

‘There are a lot non-financial asks that can involve people in your charity, so they can still help even if they can’t afford to donate.’

Emily Casson

‘Ask your supporters to send stuff to you. That’s a great way to engage supporters, to check in with them, how are they feeling.’

Emily Casson

 

Transcript of Episode 25

Rob:

Hi. This is Rob Woods, and welcome to Episode 25 of the Fundraising Bright Spots Podcast. This is the show for anyone who works in charity fundraising and who wants ideas for how to raise more money, enjoy their job, and make a bigger difference even during the coronavirus pandemic. Firstly, I hope that you’re safe and well in spite of these uncertain times. And if you work as a digital fundraiser, or if digital fundraising is one of the things you’re responsible for and you’d like ideas and encouragement for what to do at the moment, then I really think you’re going to find today’s episode helpful, because I’m about to share with you an interview I carried out recently with Emily Casson, the award-winning digital marketing manager at Cats Protection.

If you’ve already listened to episodes 15 and 16 of this podcast, you’ll already know about her down to earth approach and about the phenomenal growth that she and her team have achieved with it in recent years. I was keen to talk to Emily again now, particularly because of the way her team has been responding to the new challenges and opportunities that the pandemic has brought. For instance, she’s found that during this crisis, not only have most people spent a lot of time looking at their phone, many are as keen to support causes they care about as they ever have been. In this episode, Emily talks about a range of tactics, including Facebook advertising, email, and using Facebook Lives to engage and inspire.

This episode of the Fundraising Bright Spots Podcast is brought to you by the Bright Spot Members Club. As a practical alternative to one off conferences and courses, whose impact can fade all too quickly, the Members Club is an online resource that gives you ongoing access to a whole library of video training courses, monthly coaching webinars, and live training events. It’s all designed to help you learn, enjoy your job, and raise more money. To join the 300 fundraisers already in the club or just to find out more, go to brightspotfundraising.co.uk.

Rob:

Emily Casson, how are you?

Emily:

Hey, I’m good thanks. Thanks for having me on.

Rob:

Yeah, thank you for reappearing on the podcast. Regular listeners to the podcast will remember that we had a fascinating chat a few months ago. And if a person listening now wants to check those out, those are on episode 15 and episode 16. But for today, you are digital marketing manager at Cats Protection. You’ve won various awards for strategies, and in particular, the growth that Cats Protection has achieved through the digital channel in the last four years. I’m not going to go into all of that in depth, but just for today’s listener to know, you really know your stuff. And that’s why I was desperate to talk to you now to help listeners who are curious about what they could or should be prioritizing to do with digital fundraising during the pandemic. Just before we get to that, how is your home setup? Are you surviving okay with work and home balance and so on?

Emily:

Yes, just about. Getting used to having my boyfriend’s six year old twins around and also not traveling to London all the time, but surviving.

Rob:

Okay. So, some pros and some cons I guess, as for many of us. And then, we’re going to dive into it. There you are at Cats Protection. I gather you’ve been as busy as ever right now needing to respond and adjust strategy to what’s happened since the pandemic hit in March. If you were to think of one… Just get us started. What’s a key priority for you in the last couple of months and that you think many charities should be looking at to really make sure they’re responding to the digital channel?

Emily:

I think for us, Facebook advertising has been really big for us in last couple of months. And we had quite a big program before all this, but we found for April results are the best we’ve ever seen on digital. And I know that’s often across the board in charities, that’s not specific to Cats Protection, that we found quadruple the results we would have normally expected in April. And we think one of the reasons for that is everybody’s on their phone. There’s a fascinating report out around lockdown in China and how people were actually on their phones 7.3 hours a day, which is a staggering stat. And we think we’re going to have similar stats over here.

But what the really interesting thing we found is it’s not just there’s more eyeballs on Facebook, but people are actually more responsive. People really want to give, and that’s not necessarily something you would expect in the current climate, but people are really keen to donate. And we’ve found we’ve got a lot of people coming for the first time donating, that they might have liked the cause before, but they’ve been prompted by the current crisis to donate. And I think that’s something all charities should be really looking at.

You can do it on a really small scale, Facebook advertising, and also looking at the Facebook Donate side too, that Facebook’s just launched a whole new in-site section for Facebook Donate. So you can get more insights than ever before on who’s donating to you, what all the kind of stats are around their demographics. And I think that Facebook has really come into its own in the current climate, when everybody in the world is on Facebook

Rob:

And in March, those were presumably your existing assets or existing adverts that you had already used. But in March you noticed people were so much more responsive. And did the quadrupling just happen with the existing strategy or were you noticing there was extra interest and therefore you were responding and investing more?

Emily:

I think we noticed there was a lot of extra interest and also the costs are really low on Facebook because a lot of the normal advertisers, all the shops and things, are obviously not advertising. So it’s a combination of the cost being a lot lower, a lot more people being on Facebook, and the people being more responsive. And we increased our spend massively because we had a lot of money that we could redeploy from face to face, because obviously that stopped. And we also introduced some new Facebook adverts quite quickly. We did do an emergency appeal, but we also did some stuff around our education messaging. We’ve got a lovely set of education resources for people home-schooling their kids at home. So we actually did that as a lead generation campaign on Facebook, that went down fantastically well, and we got over a thousand people signing up in the first day.

So, that’s really done well for us. And I think that the charities who are making a success of Facebook are actually thinking about what do the audience want? What has changed in their lives? How can you give added value to them? Rather than just serving the same adverts on a bigger scale.

Rob:

So, just to help me understand when you say lead generation, is that people signing up at a very low level, but you’re looking to build a relationship for the longterm? Or is that people signing up giving no money at all, but you’re offering something that’s useful to them in their current situation, like helping with home-schooling and why would they not receive that and make use of it? And in so doing, they get to know your cause and your brand, and in due course you can re-target or offer them something else.

Emily:

Yeah, it’s signing up to an email journey where you get the weekly emails with the education resources and some nice little videos and things, and it’s completely free. The model we use on a lot of our lead generation is an email journey, and we’ve got another one on cat behaviours. And then you get to know the charity, you get to understand the value and then normally kind of six to nine months down the line, you would then look to target them with a financial ask. So, it’s not quick win, it’s not an easy thing. But I think in the current climate, there are some people that can give and aren’t commuting and things, so have a bit more disposable income. But there are also some people that can’t give at the minute and don’t necessary want to be asked, particularly not a hard ask. So it’s what can you do as a charity to give them added value? And then in return, when they’re in a different financial position, they’re likely to go on and support you once they’ve understood the great work of the charity.

Rob:

Fantastic. So, a key business principle I’ve been seeing advised in many places right now is how can you add more value? Now is not necessarily the time to be making greater income for your charity, or indeed for a business. But if you can be the charity that is genuinely meeting a need, helping people out right now, if that’s what you do, then for the medium and longterm that can only pay you back in due course. From the point of view of a smaller charity that maybe hasn’t taken that approach before, because it hasn’t felt it’s had the resources or the longterm strategy to be in the mindset of investing in something that doesn’t yet pay back, what would your few tips be in getting started so that it genuinely is something that meets a need rather than some gimmick that people take no interest in? And also, any tips to make it in due course most likely to be a relationship that does pay you back as well?

Emily:

I always say think big, start small, scale quickly. So, I’d start small, I would test it. So in our case, we actually thought, okay, what if you spoke with parents? We will ask parents in the organization, would they be interested in this? What kind of thing would they want? And I think every charity, and a small charity, can ask their supporters. And I think what… Small charities often have that advantage, as they are much closer to their supporters. They can actually chat to them. And whether that is having something like a digital champions program, where you have guinea pigs and a group of people that actually volunteer to test your new initiatives, that’s a great thing for valued supporters because they really feel that they are part of that course, if you are asking for their advice and help at a very early stage before you then go on to develop something that isn’t useful.

Emily:

And in terms of how you then nurture that relationship, I would say the mistakes some charities make is they have a great welcome journey, even if that is one or two emails, and then people kind of fall off the cliff. So it’s actually mapping the journey for the people over a few months and accepting that the return might come in really early. There are some people that sign up and they’re really warm to the cause, and will donate straight away. There are some people it’s a much slower burn. And when you are doing your budgets and your targeting, you need to accept that and not think of it as a failure if you’ve not made the money back straight away.

Rob:

Yes. And I guess there’s just a bigger theme I’m sensing in your approach, is that it is possible to bring in good donations now and acquisition clearly is working for you as well. But I’m sensing this theme that first and foremost, even, and especially as a fundraiser, our position should be to care about our supporters and our donors. And look, how can we communicate with them in a way that is meeting them at a time when they are likely to be more worried, more fearful, more alone, more worried about health and economics and their lives. There’s this overarching thing, if we start there either just to add value or at least to acknowledge that in the way we communicate, even if we do then go on to make an ask for a donation, do you want to speak theme and how you’ve, how you’ve applied it in all of your tactics?

Emily:

Yes, I think the tone is so important, and actually remembering that your donor is actually human. And the current crisis, some people are quite enjoying being at home, not commuting, spending time with the kids. Other people are in a completely different situation. So, I think it’s understanding that your supporters, and even an individual, you might have conflicting views. And something that we found really interesting is it’s changing week on week, that we actually saw people being a lot more fearful when Boris made the announcement that things were going to start getting back to normal and start easing, that we found an interesting spike in that week that donations ditched slightly because people were starting to feel a bit more fretful.

Whereas before that, they’d kind of gotten used to the new normal a bit, and it does change. And I think it’s so important to actually acknowledge that, not just these supporters, but also your staff and your volunteers and everybody, it’s a very strange situation. And the more human you can come across in your communications, acknowledging that, acknowledging that a lot of people want to give, but being clear, don’t feel at all guilty if you’re not in the position to give.

Emily:

And I think one of the things a lot of charities could do is give people options. If you’re not in a financial position to give, what can you do? So if that is sharing posts on social so that we reach a wide audience, signing up for emails, or inviting friends to sign up for emails, or volunteering. There’s a lot of nonfinancial asks that can involve people in the charity without making them feel guilty, that they can’t afford to donate.

Rob:

Yeah. And so, does that approach across all the various channels you’re doing, be it Facebook or email, or on the website, in the last two months you’ve been more deliberate in making those other nonfinancial options easy and obvious?

Emily:

Yeah, I think definitely. And we did look, at the start of this across all of the different creative we had running, all of the different email journeys, looked at what we needed to change on a practical point of view, because obviously we’re not delivering the same services we normally are, so we need to be careful on messaging. But also thinking, well what’s the tone of this? Like, does this jar a bit? What do we want to change? So, I think that’s definitely an approach you can take for everything. Just be a bit more human.

Rob:

Fantastic. So, Facebook is clearly an area you would recommend people look more closely at and you’ve outlined several fairly simple things they could specifically look to apply. If there was another key channel or priority that you’ve been looking at for the last couple of months, what would it be?

Emily:

I think email will be a big priority, both in terms of signing new people up to your database, like we’ve just discussed our lead generation. And also stewarding your warm supporters, that we’ve found email open rates have gone through the roof. They’re the kind of highest they’ve ever been, because again, everybody’s at home pretty much pouncing on their emails. All of the learnings and testing we built up over years about the best time of day, or best day of the week, completely going out the window when everybody’s been at home. But people are really responsive. They want to get the emails.

So, I would say send more emails, but make them interesting. Whether that’s really short snippets, little videos, little things the charity are doing, people want to be involved. They’re opening the emails, but they are being put off by if it’s just a very long message from the CEO on a weekly basis, people have stopped reading that from the big companies, they’re not interested.

And I think that’s something to mindful for, that some people are deliberately switching off from the news and don’t want to constantly be reminded during the middle of a pandemic. They want nice stuffy stuff, so we’ve been sending things like cute kitten videos that are our best performing stuff ever. Well, being cute videos, I mean, not exactly surprising given the cause. But we’ve found that when we sent newsletters out with practical updates on coronavirus, but also the more fluffy stuff, it’s the fluffy stuff that people want.

That’s something a lot of charities could replicate, that they want to know what is going on with the charity, they want to know on a practical level what services are and aren’t running, but they also want good news stories. And I think that’s something every charity, could do, some sort of good news story in terms of what has gone well, something great a support has done for them, or something going on great with their service delivery.

Or even some local charities have just been sending out really cute pictures that the kids in their services have drawn. And people are loving that, because it’s just something to make people smile. And I think when you’re sending emails in the current climate, think not just about content, but also how is this going to make a supporter feel? Is it going to make them feel more positive to the cause? In some cases, yes, you want to prompt them to donate. Obviously as a digital fundraiser, that’s my job. But it’s also thinking, okay, is this going to make them feel guilty? Because that’s not what you want. Or is this going to make them feel warm and fluffy, or really see the value in what their donation is being spent on?

Rob:

Yes, it was an amazing story and it’s still running even, just how the media and the public latched on to Captain Tom Moore’s story. And I’ve been blogging about various reasons why I think that took off so greatly, but at the heart of it, it’s a great, happy story that people enjoy listening to and talking about. And clearly lots of our listeners don’t have cute kitten videos as an option for their cause. But all of them, with a little creativity, can search deliberately for assets or stories or images, or make simple films, that help people feel good or feel proud about some victories, some progress, some times we’re managing to do a good thing, especially in the face of the difficulties that people are facing.

Emily:

I think that’s definitely what people are wanting at the minute, that happy feeling, that good news story. And that’s the sort of stuff that will be shared on social media, any cute little videos and things that people are putting out, or little postcards or whatever you can do for your supporters to bring a bit of joy to their day. Yes, we want them to donate money, but they also remember how they feel about a charity. So, if they are feeling positive… And I get that for a lot of charities, they are in dire situations at the minute. It’s really important to get the donations in, but also remember that people want to still know where their donations are going and that they’re making a difference. And they want to feel that they are making a difference supporting you.

Rob:

So at its simplest, if they ask someone on the front line who’s helping those children or doing the volunteer work to protect the environment, even now, if they’ve got someone in their charity doing great stuff and they get that person to make a simple smartphone film, or they interview them on a Zoom call or something, and create that little one minute, two minute story and put a link in that to an email. Do you have any tips for people who haven’t taken that sort of rough and ready approach to using film before? My view is now more than ever, it’s so much more interesting and clickable and enjoyed by our supporters. But practically speaking, is there any tips you would give the listener who hasn’t done much of that before?

Emily:

I think the top one would be, don’t be scared of doing it. There’s a lot of advice out there on the kind of practical setup for your smartphone and how to kind of position it. But I think it would just be, don’t be scared, that people love the rough and ready human side of a charity, that we find on Facebook that people respond far better to that than they do to a nice studio shot, really professional video or image, that that’s what people are responding to.

And I think I would also say, do it the other way. Ask your supports to send stuff to you, that that’s a great way to engage supporters that check in with them, how are they feeling? Or get them to decorate something, like it’s bladder cancer awareness month, so everybody’s doing butterflies that they’re putting in windows and sending pictures of and things. So, it’s little things like that that can engage people without a lot of time or effort, because I know time’s very precious at the minute for charities.

Rob:

I know some arts charities are doing really well inviting their audience to be part of the concert and just to sing a part of the concert. And then they mash it all up and put it together as the people’s concert. And surprise surprise, loads of people show up to listen because everyone who’s in it told all their friends and family to listen to the concert. And I know there’s an environmental charity that’s had amazing results, actually not digital, but just writing letters to 400 people who had taken part in these environmental expeditions in the past and asking them, “We want to hear your story. Would you join me on a Zoom call to share your story?”

And more than 50 people… That’s what, one in 10? From that that letter to people that hadn’t heard from the charity in a long time, one in 10 people have come forward and wanted that Zoom chat, because they want to share their story. And my sense is that those results are stronger now than they would have been when people weren’t stuck at home.

Emily:

Yeah. I think definitely there are a lot of people stuck at home that have a lot more time on their hands, they’re a lot more responsive to things, and they want to get engaged. Like you said, they want to share their stories. They might well have always wanted to share their stories and just not had the time before. Whereas now’s the time to actually invite them to those Zoom sessions, or other charities I know were doing drop-ins for their trustees. So actually doing meet the trustees, which on a normal circumstance you might not be able to do. You might never attend open evening. But something we’ve been doing at Cats is virtual tours of the centres. And I know other charities are doing the same. And there’s tens of thousands of people watching them, just a really quick and simple Facebook Live, somebody going round the empty centre and showing the cats that we’ve still got there, that people are really engaged in that.

And a lot of these people would have never actually physically got to the centre, they might not live near it. But because of digital, it’s massively increasing the reach. And that’s a great one that charities can do, if there is anybody about delivering services, they can do videos explaining it. And that doesn’t put a lot of extra work on the charity, but a simple Facebook Live goes down really well with the audience.

Rob:

Yes. I know that Gurkha Welfare Trust had amazing results from their first Facebook Live, delivered by one of their colleagues out in Nepal. And something like 52,000 people in hardly any time have watched that Facebook Live and just reams and reams of positive comments coming into the chat box there. And my question, I guess, is if there’s a charity listening and they haven’t done a Facebook Live before, clearly they might want to go and do a little bit more research if they’re interested, but from your… What would your top tips be if there’s a listener out there considering bringing their cause to life through a Facebook Live?

Emily:

I think I’d think about how you can make it engaging, that somebody just going around with a camera without speaking might not be as engaging as somebody being interactive. I think the great thing about Facebook Live is people can do comments in real time. So it’s a great one to do Q and A sessions and really involve the audience in it. And I’d also say, add a donate button in. We’ve seen great success on, nothing to do with fundraising, things like vets doing Q and A’s or the education team doing Facebook Lives. But people want to donate, on a relatively small scale, but I would think do involve that. And I think, think about all the different areas of your charity outside of fundraising, in your sort of service delivery, what would actually be really interesting? Is that a nurse speaking about their experience? Is it some of your volunteers talking about what they’ve been up to delivering food parcels? What would really engage people?

And one of the top tips would be, think about how you can engage the audience. Think about how you can do more of an interactive format, rather than just somebody doing a prerecord or something to an audience, because that’s the beauty of Facebook Live, that people can like it in real time, you can see what’s going down well, you can answer questions. You can really engage people. And I get that it’s scary for people that have not necessarily done it before, but I would say do a test internally with a few people you know before you go on a large scale. Think about how it’s going to work, because you don’t want to start out thinking it’s going to be an hour and then half an hour through realize you’ve used up all the content and you’re just wandering around.

Emily:

But I think it’s that human element that people are loving. Like at Cats, we’ve been having weekly webinars with the CEO. And the best one was when somebody asked him, “Can you go find the kittens,” that they are fostering at the minute, and accidentally did a tour of the whole house finding the kittens. And I think that’s the kind of silly thing that people… Like that human side that people are really responding to. That’s not always the side they get to see from charities, they often get the very polished side where everything’s been storyboarded and scripted to death, whereas actually that rough and ready stuff, people really like that. They like knowing the humans behind the charity.

Rob:

Yes. I saw the same thing, but in the one I mentioned before that the Gurkha Welfare Trust did it, it wasn’t all slick. But I think one thing about it is, it does show vulnerability and courage on the part of the person doing it. And also by implication, the charity. And people so respect and like that quality, it’s such a valuable quality in our lives and people respond to it.

Emily:

Yes. I think people are often scared of not being seen as professional. Whereas I think you can still be professional and respected as a charity while also having that human side. And I think everybody knows in the current climate, it’s not normal circumstances. They’re not expecting anything to be professionally shot. They just want to know what’s going on and be engaged. And in some cases, just have a bit of fun with it.

Rob:

And one other thing that occurs to me with Facebook Live though, I’m not an expert, is that it carries on being useful, interesting content long after it was live.

Emily:

Yeah. I think that’s what we see, is like you were saying with the choir example, that people like telling their friends about stuff and sharing it. So, if there’s a really interesting thing somebody’s seen, they will share it, they’ll tag a friend in and be like, “Oh, have you seen this video?” And you can watch it back, you don’t get that same interaction, but I think it’s still really valuable, because you’ve all of a sudden got this whole bank of content that you might do a different one every week. You might do a tour of your services one week, or put a spotlight on a different member of the team every week. And then you can have all that content that you can kind of reuse and play back.

Rob:

And for your charity, once those exist, do you proactively reshare them on social media or through other means? Or do you just let it organically do its thing, because people are doing what you just said?

Emily:

I think we do a lot of it organically, but we would say… Like it’s mental health awareness week, we would then look at, okay, what content have we done in the past that we could use for that? And I think that we do definitely reuse some of it, particularly the education content that doesn’t ever go out of date. It’s always interesting, that people might have missed it first time round, we can share it again.

Rob:

Emily, thank you so much for all of your time today. Thank you for all of your ideas. I know you’re as busy as ever, both for Cats Protection and these various other charities that you help out in a pro bono way. I’m going to let you get away. But for now, thank you so much for appearing on the podcast.

Emily:

Thanks for having me on, hopefully it’ll be really useful.

Rob:

Well, I hope you found Emily’s ideas helpful. If you’re part of the Bright Spot Members Club, you’ll be able to see the full interview with Emily on the site. You can find out more at brightspotmembersclub.co.uk.

And if you liked this episode, please do subscribe today, so that you don’t miss out on all the other episodes that we’ve got planned. Also, if you think this session would help your wider team or your friends in other charities, I’d be very grateful if you could share it, so that these ideas help as many charities as possible to get through this crisis. To get in touch, or share this episode on social media, Emily and I are both on LinkedIn and on Twitter. Emily is @EmilyCasson; And I am @woods_rob. We’d love to hear what you think.

If you’d like more ideas to help you succeed during the pandemic, then I’d love for you to make use of my new ebook, Power Through the Pandemic, which gives seven key strategies to help you raise money, even now, through major donors, corporates and trusts. You can download it for free from www.brightspotfundraising.co.uk/power. Finally, thank you so much for listening today. I really appreciate the effort and time it takes to keep learning with everything else that’s going on. And I hope that the episode gave you some ideas and some encouragement. Until the next time, stay safe and best of luck with your fundraising.