Episode 42: Louise Morris – Increasing Major Donor income with genuine relationships

Episode Notes

Major donor income is incredibly important to most charities looking to make up for the continuing COVID-induced shortfall in other areas in 2020 and 2021.

So in this episode we look at an approach to major gift fundraising that solves some all too common pitfalls that frequently hamper success.

This is the first part of my recent interview with a brilliant fundraiser named Louise Morris, Director at Summit Fundraising. Together we’ve just created a new learning bundle on major donor fundraising for members of our training and inspiration membership, the Bright Spot Club. In fact, we were so excited about the content that we were determined to share this first section with you through my podcast.

It’s all about how to develop better and deeper relationships. In this section, we explore challenges with the most commonly used model – The Seven Steps of Donor Solicitation – and the language used in most charities to manage major donor fundraising. And we explore a new model Louise has created that helps to overcome these problems.

If you want to share this episode because you think it will help other charities, THANK YOU VERY MUCH! We are both on Linked In and on twitter, Louise is @summitfundraise and I am @woods_rob.

Further Resources

FREE book: If you’d like more powerful strategies to help you raise funds during the pandemic, why not check out the many strategies in my free E-book: Power Through The Pandemic – Seven ways to raise money with major donors, corporates and trusts, even now. You can download it for FREE here: brightspotfundraising.co.uk/power

FABULOUS CONSULTANCY HELP: You can find out more about how Louise can help you with your fundraising at www.summitfundraising.co.uk

TRAINING AND INSPIRATION, 24/7. Louise is one of our inspiring coaches who run the inspiring problem-solving sessions with Rob for the Bright Spot Members Club. If you’d like to find out more about all the training and other support we provide for fundraisers through the club, go to www.brightspotmembersclub.co.uk/join.

‘Be curious! Since doing this, I find myself thinking days later about this interesting person with such a different approach, a different life… because we’ve had a genuinely interesting conversation… the dynamic is so different when you’re not trying to sell something or get something from them…’

Louise Morris

Transcript of Episode


Hello, and welcome to Episode 42 of the Fundraising Bright Spots Podcast. My name is Rob Woods, and this is the show for anyone who works in charity fundraising, and who wants ideas for how to raise more money, enjoy their job, and make a bigger difference, especially during the pandemic. And if you work with major donors or if high-value income is one of the things that you’re responsible for, I hope you’re going to find this episode interesting, because today we’re looking at an approach to major gift fundraising that solves some of the all too common pitfalls that harm your chances of success. I recently caught up with a brilliant fundraiser named Louise Morris, who’s the director at Summit Fundraising, and we created a new learning bundle for the Bright Spot Members Club. It’s all about how to develop better, more respectful, and deeper relationships with major donors who care about your cause.

In this excerpt from that interview, Louise lays out some of the challenges that she feels are caused by the terminology and the mindsets that some charities use when looking at high value fundraising. And then she goes on to explain her own model, which we have found to be more useful if you’re serious about building sincere two way relationships with your supporters. Our discussion includes the power of developing genuine curiosity in others, the immense value that stems from pausing to think clearly about the relationships your charity has with its supporters, and plenty of ideas to improve in both these areas. I’ve had the privilege of working closely with Louise for nearly a year now, including through the Major Gifts Mastery Programme, for which she delivers outstanding one-to-one coaching, and I always learn so much from our conversations. I really hope you find her ideas helpful too. Louise Morris, how are you?


I’m very well, thank you, and thanks for having me.


Oh, you’re very welcome. I’ve been meaning to sort out this interview for a while, because I’ve enjoyed working with you more closely for the last nine months, last year or so, and already I’ve learned a great deal, but I’m getting ahead of myself. Here we are in the autumn of this crazy year, 2020, and I would love to do an interview with you Louise, to do with one element of high-value fundraising. In a moment let’s get into a model that you’ve been using with your clients and you’ve been sharing with our coaching clients on the Bright Spot Mastery Programme. In fact, just before I get onto that, I need to acknowledge that some guests I don’t know very well. You I know quite well and I work with you and you’re a wonderful consultant for Bright Spot, and you coach people, especially those taking part in the major gifts mastery program, but you’re a very experienced fundraiser. You run Summit Fundraising. How long were you fundraising at the coalface, so to speak, and then how long have you been a consultant?


So I’ve been fundraising in charities large and small for over 10 years. I started my career at Unilever, so I’ve got an interesting sales and marketing background, selling peas and ice cream and all sorts, and then transferred over to the third sector. And spent all of that time with a major gift focus, corporate partnerships, but also then high net worth individuals. And my last in-house role was director of fundraising at Woking Hospice. So that gave me some really invaluable experience for senior teams, spending a lot of time with trustees.

And decided to set up Summit Fundraising four years ago to do what I love, which is helping fundraisers build relationships with high net worth individuals and raise more money with a real focus on relationships. And I think one of the things I really struggled with when I was a director of fundraising, which we’ll probably come on to a bit, was actually making that time, in quite hectic roles, to actually focus on that major donor as a person. So it’s something I feel really passionately about and it sounds so simple, but actually doing it in practice is quite different.


Yes, it really is. It takes effort and focus and practice, the development of skill, and then through that, confidence grows, and I know you do that role for some charities, but you’re also especially good at coaching chief execs or frontline fundraisers to get better in those areas. When I started as a fundraiser 20 years ago, honestly, I found I struggled in that area and I struggled in terms of what should I work harder at? What should I focus more of my energy on? And then the main model that everyone just kept pointing me to was called the seven steps of donor solicitation. And I appreciate that it had some wisdom in getting us more organized, but even then, that model, as I was taught it, I felt it didn’t help me much. Was that your experience? I mean, clearly there are some advantages to any system that gets us more organized, but what was your take on that model?


Yeah, it was an interesting one for me, because having got a sales background, it really appealed to me, this process, and almost like a sales pipeline or funnel. And I spent a good few first years in my career thinking about all the similarities between sales, having been at Unilever and the private sector, and fundraising, and fundraising with high net worth individuals. And the further I’ve got in my career, the more I now focus on the differences. So for me, whilst that organization and process is really important, and what we’re talking about today is not to take away from that at all, I know many fundraisers I’ve worked with many on Bright Spot that, as well as the relationship building that we’ll talk about, as well as the stories, organization and process is important.

I’ve just become increasingly uncomfortable with it. And I suppose one of the key areas I’m uncomfortable with is some of the terminology. And on the one hand we can think, well, a prospect’s just a prospect, it’s just a word, or somebody that we’re cultivating. It’s only a term. It’s just there to help organizers. But I don’t think it is just that. I think how we speak about our donors and our supporters completely pervades our culture and everything we do as fundraisers. And I’m a firm believer that anything you say internally about a donor, whether it’s how they might have behaved in a meeting or whether it’s a process or a term like cultivation, you should use to their face. It’s not comfortable. I don’t think it’s comfortable for a lot of us to talk to a donor about them being cultivated or as a prospect or being stewarded. So I think that the terminology is a lot more than that, and it doesn’t help us build deeper connections and we need those more than ever.


Yes, absolutely. So what is an alternative way of approaching this challenge?


Well, the deeper connections I spoke about has partly been inspired by Dr. Jen Shang, which a lot of people, or some people know is a amazing philanthropic psychologist, and I studied with her earlier this year. And it really took me past the point of thinking how we steward, in inverted commas, and look after our donors and thank them into how do we build those deeper connections? And big fan of Dr. Beth Breeze’s work as well, who’s interviewed hundreds of philanthropists and there’s some really interesting interviews there. So I suppose my learning over the past few years, I’ve taken some time and locked down to just try and pull it together, and I’m hoping it will help other fundraisers have an alternative and just to have a more person-centered approach, but still have a way of organizing it.

So there’s five steps, and the five steps are, one, be curious. And curiosity to me is something that is innate in all of us and it gets crushed. It gets crushed when we’re busy. It gets crushed when we focus on targets and process. And at the heart of major donor fundraising is people. And if we can be curious about people, we’re not just talking about research, important as that is, we’re really talking about understanding that person, their philanthropic objectives, what is motivating them? So, number one is curious. Number two is pause and taking a step back. So sometimes it’s called planning and obviously there’s some planning involved, but I know Bright Spot and you, Rob, have some great tips on this, but it’s hard in busy fundraising roles to really think about what would appeal to this major donor specifically? What do I know about them? And to take the time to pause to do that planning.

Number three is connect. So yes, thank you cards are lovely, but how can you connect at a deeper level with high net worth individuals? How can you connect them to the people or the world, if you’re helping the world? How can you connect them to that impact? But also to other donors into your organization? So there’s whole different ways that you can connect with donors that strengthens their relationship, strengthens their love for your charity. Number four is offer. And I talk about asking all the time. It’s something that’s innate in our sector, but Mandy Johnson helped me put this model together and she’s done a beautiful sketch note of it. And when we were talking about it on the phone, we were like, “It’s just not right.” We said offer. You’re giving somebody the opportunity. And what I love about the fourth one, offer, is that it is an opportunity for people. Giving is joyful. People get a huge amount of wellbeing and love out of giving to charities. And if we, as a fundraiser, are asking, it puts all that risk and stress on us.

No, what we’re doing is we’re offering. We’re offering someone the opportunity to, in essence, change the world, cheesy as it sounds, because that’s why we’re all in the sector and doing what we’re doing. And that’s why philanthropists give. And the last one is to go deeper, because often the… One of the things I really don’t like about a lot of cycles is they cycle around because you got to think about that next ask. No, no, no, no, no. If someone’s just given you money, you don’t just give them a thank you card and plan the next ask. How can you deepen that connection? How can you really show them the difference their money’s making? How can you thank them, not just with a lovely card? How can it be creative and different? And it’s not a one-off activity and it’s not a stage. It’s constant. So one, be curious, two, pause, three, connect, four, offer the chance to give, and five, go deeper.


Fabulous. And I know that this approach, your mindset, you’re focusing and caring about certain words and the signals that they send. I know it’s already been helping because you’ve been getting some really wonderful results and crucially helping other people to get some wonderful results, both through the Major Gifts Mastery Program and your many other charity clients. So I’ve noticed the difference that this is making.

If I may, I’d like to just go deeper now into, yes, it makes sense, Louise, but how do I do that step? Within each of these five steps, there are things about them that are not necessarily easy, that are not the path of least resistance for organizational reasons, and/or for personal psychological reasons. Confidence and so on. So if we were to start at the first one, of being curious, what can go wrong, and what are a couple of tips that you tend to advise people to help them just hang in there and not try and get something, but just pause and be truly interested in the other person. How do you do it?


So the first one for me comes before you’ve even met that person. And we often want to do prospect research. I think when you’re in a small charity… These large charities have these amazing researchers that would help me so much and they do, and I think prospect research done well is amazing. But I think if we’re being introduced to a high net worth individual by a trustee, maybe the CEO’s met somebody, maybe met a major donor three years before, and the relationships lapsed. How often do we spend the time talking to that person who’s introducing us? And that is the best kind of research that you could do.

So the first thing I would say is if you’re getting introductions, and it can be from another major donor, they say, “Oh, actually, my friend would love to come along to your next event.” Fantastic if you’ve got to that stage, but then what open questions do you then ask that donor? Because what you can find out from somebody who knows somebody is so much more than you’ll ever find out on the internet, on paper, or any type of prospect research. So it’s using those links and using those introductions before you meet someone.

And another tip is to use that first meeting, and the Bright Spot Major Gift Mastery Programme, one of my favourite parts of all the training is when, Rob, you’re talking about how to be doing 80% listening and 20% talking at that first meeting. So the first meeting you have with someone, you are finding out, you’re being curious. That’s all part of, in older model terminology, researching somebody. And it’s so much more valuable than anything you’ll do behind the scenes. So really using that connection and thinking broader than your own charity. The questions that I hear and that I sometimes coach fundraisers to be asking are very broad. Why do you give to good causes? What motivates you outside of your businesses? What gets you up in the morning? How are you involved with your other charities? We focus on the money. My gosh do we focus on the money so much, and I get why, because I’ve been under huge pressure with targets and a lot of charities I work with are, but you’ve got to take that out of the equation for that first meeting and understand them as a person.

And one of the techniques, another tip that you can do that, is to be quite open. One of the techniques to be open is to actually open up yourself. So it’s proven psychologically that if… We’re talking about ultimately giving money here, and that’s really uncomfortable for lots of people, particularly in British culture. So if you think about that first meeting with a philanthropist, you want them to open up and you want them to ask loads of open questions, but how can you encourage it? So we might be asking some quite personal questions about their giving, about their lives, and it really helps if you can reciprocate. It’s a technique that if you disclose something about yourself, if you can be open, it encourages somebody else to do it.

So for example, a philanthropist I spoke to as part of a hospice project, setting up their major donor fundraising, I knew that his wife had died in a hospice. He had two young children at the time, six and three, and this was 10 years on. So I wanted him to open up about those motivations, but I’d never met him. He didn’t know me. And it was over Zoom, which is the next best thing, but it’s not as good as face-to-face. But the reason I was interviewing him was I wanted him to be honest about his relationships to the hospice and his views on it.

Now I’ve got quite a lot of personal experience with hospice cause my dad had hospice at home care and then passed away in a Sue Rider hospice over 10 years ago. And I mentioned that early on. Not that it’s about me. I didn’t dwell on it. But I mentioned my experiences briefly, and we just had the most amazing conversation. We were actually both in tears at one point, and I thanked him at the end. So just being so open and honest about his wife who had passed away. And if I’d have been very formal and very businesslike, and, “I’m doing this project for this hospice and what are your views on the care that your wife received,” I just don’t think we’d have made that connection, I’d have been able to ask the questions that I asked, and he would have opened up so much.


Hi, it’s Rob and I wanted to jump into the middle of this episode really quickly to tell you about something that Louise and I are so excited about, which is the Major Gifts Mastery Program. So to give you a little bit of background, this is my flagship program. We’ve already run it twice this year so we know that during the pandemic, this program continues to help fundraisers grow not only their confidence, but also, crucially, their results, as indeed it has done for the last seven years that we’ve been running it. Through this virtual six month program, you receive powerful strategies through regular master classes, through one-to-one coaching sessions with Louise and other excellent fundraisers, as well as access to my full training film library and optional weekly problem-solving sessions, just like members of the Bright Spot Club get access to. So if you need to take your fundraising to the next level, the Major Gift Mastery Program will help you do just that. To find out more or to get in touch, go to brightspotfundraising.co.uk/services, and click on Major Gifts Mastery Program.


Another philanthropist I’ve interviewed… I laugh, because we have an image of a philanthropist in our mind. He was an incredibly casual farmer. He was in his farming vest, because he owned a farming company that has done very well. Now take out the money aside, which is easier for me, because I haven’t got a target right against my name right now. We had a fascinating conversation when I was asking him why he gave and what encouraged him, what was the tipping point where he decided to set up a foundation, which is what he’s done. He’s got a very successful farming business. He set up a foundation giving over £120,000 a year away. And what did he and his family get from that? What did they enjoy the most about their giving? And when you can go as wide as that, you can then make connections to your organization, or not as the case may be.

And I suppose that’s the last point about this area is that we shouldn’t necessarily hang on to donors that aren’t a right fit. And when I say fit, well maybe they’re not interested in what you do. Maybe they took the meeting because they had their arm a little bit bent, and they’re really good friend who is a trustee or is a fellow donor who said, “It’s a charity I really care about. Come and hear a bit more.” But there’s a really interesting book called Philanthropy Revolution by Lisa Greer, who you can see I’ve got lots of tabs in, and she’s a philanthropist of over 10 years and didn’t have wealth before that. She got very rich almost overnight as she describes it. She’s very honest about her experiences with charities. A lot are in the US. But this point to me is really relevant to us in the UK.

She says that fundraisers really think donors aren’t aware of non-profits working in the same sphere as their own. Do they really think we’re not aware of their competitors, in inverted commerce. Somebody I was coaching through lockdown, they had reduced the amount of their medical research they were doing in their charity, and they had a first meeting with a venture capitalist, which was really exciting because they’d been trying to meet with him for two years, and then coronavirus hit and he accepted the meeting. It wasn’t the right fit. He wanted to fund the types of research that charity we’re going to stop doing for the next two years. I would love us, as fundraisers, to know other charities enough to recommend them to philanthropists, to help them with their giving. That relationship building will come back full round. You don’t know what role you’re going to be in. You don’t know when this philanthropy is going to give again, but I think sometimes we think they’ve got money and we’ve met with them. We are going to try and put a square peg into a round hole.

And part of meeting donors is actually being realistic and having honest conversations, and philanthropists respect that, to say, “Actually, your real passion, that’s not what we’re doing right now. That’s not our aim. But can we still keep in touch with you? Or I do know that this research project is happening at the moment, or there’s a collaboration of charities doing this, and you might be interested in that. Were you aware of that? Do you want to put me in touch?” That’s what we should be doing to build deeper relationships. And it’s a culture change for the sector, but it would pay dividends in terms of how much we raise overall and how we manage those relationships with philanthropists.


Yes, and that comes right back to something I’ve taught for several years now, which is let go of going into these meetings with the mindset of trying to get something. Again, it comes down to language, in a way, reinforcing behaviour. And the book called The Go-Giver by Bob Burg really resonated with me. Of course your organization needs funds to make the world a better place, but if you go to the meeting trying to get information or get money or get an introduction to someone else, you will not serve that philanthropist in today’s meeting. Whereas if you show up trying to give, to help them have a good meeting today for their reasons, then it follows on, hopefully often you’ll meet someone who is a good fit. But when they’re not a good fit, it won’t be painful to honestly say, “Do you know what? Here’s a good idea that might just help you achieve what you care about.” And it all follows back from that initial philosophy or intention.

There’s a couple of other things I want you to just add in. One of them is that there’s more and more research now to do with the building of trust and the importance of vulnerability to grow trust, including from the excellent author Brenée Brown, but there’s more and more studies now that show the quickest way to build trust is for you to be brave enough to be somewhat vulnerable, and in turn then trust grows and is usually, or often reciprocated. And it seems to me one of the things in your model is you’re increasing the chances that that will happen. Another thing that occurs to me is, even before this point, I think many charities get it wrong because they spent… The supporter or potential supporter asks us an open question of, “Why do you want the meeting, or tell me about your charity.” And then they just dive in to eight or nine minutes of passionate all about who we are, and already, I think we failed to do your step one of be curious.

And I often teach people to practice and plan to be really brief, not practice and plan to do an elevator pitch, just practice and plan to be extremely brief answering the first question, if there is one, so that confidently and proactively you can move to this step one of genuine curiosity. And the last top tip I just wanted to share before we may need to move on for time reasons. I’m well aware there’s lots more tips we could get on this step, but I really like a tip I was given by Kim van Niekerk, who’s another really excellent practitioner and also works with Bright Spot sometimes. And she said, “It’s not about having perfect questions.” By all means, think in advance of some sensible open-ended question, but it’s more about the genuine curiosity than these 21 clever questions to ask all your philanthropists. It’s more about, if you’re truly curious, the right question will come because you’ll be present and you’ll want to know for the right reasons.

But then her favourite question was a three word question, which is, tell me more. So after the first question comes, a less experienced fundraiser feeling the pressure would then feel the need to reply with something about their charity or about themselves and take back the baton of conversation, and what Kim teaches her clients is if you can, in that moment, take a deep breath and stay curious and say something along the lines of tell me more, or maybe say nothing, then it’s that next answer, and then the one after that often is most interesting to them as well as to you, because then you’re more likely to be going deeper into a values level of what they care about or crucially why they care, whereas the first answer is often a more an informational or transactional level of answer to the question.


Yeah. And I think the vulnerability piece around Brenée Brown is really interesting and I love her work. And I think linking all of what you said and all of those tips and what we’ve been talking about is that it’s just more enjoyable. It’s just so much more pleasant. It’s a conversation. And you’re right, you can’t script 20 questions for a conversation. You just can’t do it. You wouldn’t do that in normal life. So yeah, I think they’re great tips, and the conversations I’ve had with major donors since I’ve had this approach, I come off just fascinated. I’m thinking days later about just such an interesting person with a different life and a different approach, because we’ve had a genuinely interesting conversation, rather than feeling, as you were saying, that you’re trying to sell something or you’re trying to try to get something.


And what’s interesting to me about that is it shows that be curious is not just about a word in a model to do a technique, to get to an end result. However worthy the important end result might be for your important organization, if truly you are served to give to the philanthropist of your time and energy and positive intention, you’re going to be curious, and it shows that it’s working because genuinely you were fascinated. If we were to move on a little, though, to your next step of pausing, remind us, what do you mean by that, and could you give us a couple of tactics to help us do that in practice and even an example of how it’s helped?


Yeah, pausing is taking a step back, and I don’t say this lightly because I’ve been in incredibly hectic fundraising roles as a fundraiser, as a fundraising manager, and as a director. But things don’t move forward unless you do. They just don’t work with relationships. So by pausing, it’s trying to make time, time which nobody has, but thinking about what would appeal to this person. You’ve had this hopefully really open conversation. You’ve got some information and it’s not feeling like you’ve got all the answers then. It’s good sometimes to have a next step. And we talk, at Bright Spot a lot, don’t we Rob, about making sure you can try and sometimes at the beginning of a relationship, you just need to take time to think, “Okay, I’ve been given all this information. I now know this about this person. I didn’t know really anything about them before, apart from maybe on paper they give to X charity, and what’s the best next step.”

And there was a really pivotal moment when I had a coach when I was director of fundraising, who recommended Time to Think by Nancy Kline to me, which is a book about creating space. And there is also a really popular book at the moment, which parts of which I loved called Rest, and we can put both of those in the notes. But what these both have in common is the ideas do not come to us when we’re at our desks, and I think it’s even worse in some ways with homeworking because people’s personal lives and their working lives have completely merged. But nobody gets a good idea staring at a screen, or it’s very rare. So I was coaching a fundraiser at a dementia charity who was exactly at this stage. “Well, I’ve met this donor once. I know a little bit about them. I just don’t know what to do next.”

And she was in a very, very hectic role. So we talked about, since she was working from home, did she have flexibility to do what she loved more? One of those things was running. So she started to run more in the working day. And hopefully your managers will allow this kind of level of flexibility, because you’re all working so hard. And it was fascinating when we had our next coaching session because she said, “Oh, you know that donor we were talking about in the last session? I completely became unstuck. I thought about doing X, Y, or Z.” And she got that idea when she was on her run.

Now this isn’t to say, you always want to be thinking about work. You don’t want to be doing it. But what it shows is that what has been proven is that when our brains are more relaxed and when we’re not thinking about that donor or that problem, if we create the space, ideas do come into our minds. So part of this is making time for the stuff you love. I go for bike rides and I daydream. I’m not sure if I should when I’m cycling, but I’m normally off the road, and come up with a load of ideas then. And it’s more important than ever in this year, and part of creating that is saying no to some things, or saying, “No, that is good enough.” So as fundraisers, as leaders, we have reports, we have reforecasts, we have one-to-ones, we have so many different things we’re doing.

But this is one of the things you talked about at the beginning, Rob, that it is not easy. It goes against the grain to take some time and to know that it will actually benefit our fundraising, not just us and our mental health. But it does benefit your fundraising. It really does. So sometimes it’s a case of, “Well, I could do this report for an extra couple of hours, or I could just set the timer for half an hour and know that that’s going to be good enough,” because actually it’s not external for a donor, it’s internal. And what I’m interested in as a fundraiser or as a fundraising leader is the external. And I think that can be tough and some of the fundraisers I’m coaching with do find it tough. It’s outside of the comfort zone for some people to not do everything to an extremely high standard. And I think it’s about making those choices on how we spend our day, and the fundraiser that I was talking about made the choice to go for that run and to start doing it regularly. And she is a better fundraiser for it.


And two things, Jamal, who was on this podcast very recently, when I asked what’s a recent belief or behaviour that has really helped you in the last five years, he was thoughtful, and then his answer was really clear. “Yeah, there is actually, Rob. It’s giving myself that 45 minutes at some point during the day, usually to exercise, and I didn’t use to do it and I’d be doing it now, and that’s probably the thing that’s made the biggest difference in my extra productivity and results.” So Louise, thank you so much for all your time and sharing your wisdom. If the listener is curious about finding out more of your ideas, potentially seeking your help, where could they go to find you?


They can go to summitfundraising.co.uk. I’m also a rock climber, hence Summit Fundraising. And I send out free hints and tips on there every fortnight, so they can go and sign up if they’d like to get those. And I’m on Twitter @summitfundraise, and on LinkedIn as well.


Fantastic. So Louise, thank you so much for all the frank discussion, really simple, clear ideas and advice, examples to bring it to life. I really appreciate you taking time to join us on the podcast. I look forward to catching up with you soon, but for now, Louise Morris. Thank you, and goodbye.


Thanks Rob.


So there you go. I hope you found this discussion was helpful. As usual, on the blog and podcast section of brightspotfundraising.co.uk I’ll put a summary of the key ideas and a transcript of the interview. And Louise mentioned, her website is summitfundraising.co.uk. Today’s interview was part of a fuller film which we created as a learning bundle for fundraisers in our Bright Spot Members Club. In the full bundle, we go into practical detail on all five steps of Louise’s model. If you’d like to find out more about our training and inspiration site for fundraisers, do check it out at brightspotmembersclub.co.uk/join. There you can find out about all these resources that our members can access 24 hours a day, seven days a week, including an extensive library of my best training films and downloads, our super supportive community, and the live group coaching calls that we do every week on a range of topics to help you succeed in spite of the pandemic.

And if you liked the podcast, please do remember to subscribe today so that you can get access to all the other episodes that we have coming up soon. If you want to get in touch or share this episode on social media, we would love to hear from you. We’re both on LinkedIn and on Twitter. Louise is @summitfundraise, and I am @woods_rob. Finally, thank you so much for listening today, and until the next time, good luck with all your fundraising efforts.