Episode 66: Getting into gaming fundraising, with Will Robinson

Episode Notes

Even before the lockdowns of 2020 and 2021, gaming was growing ever more popular and across all demographics. This hobby is now so popular that some of the people who care about your cause almost certainly enjoy gaming on a regular basis.

In recent years many larger charities have developed strategies for fundraising with gamers. If you’ve not considered this before, or you’re interested in the opportunity, we hope you find this episode helpful.

I’m excited to share part of an interview with a very smart fundraiser named Will Robinson, who works for the charity, Become. During the first lock-down of 2020, they piloted a sponsored game-a-thon event called Become Players. It went so well they’ve repeated the event twice more, building a loyal group of new supporters, some of whom have now raised money in all three events.

In this excerpt from a new learning bundle we’ve created for the Bright Spot Members Club, Will explains lots of valuable insights to help charities succeed in this area. This includes advice on recruiting participants, tactics to add value and building loyalty.

If you want to share this episode because you think it will help other charities – THANK YOU! – we are both on Linked In and on twitter Will is @Will_R0binson and I am @woods_rob.

Further Resources

Want to go deeper and get 24/7 access to LOTS more practical training content?

This episode is part of a learning bundle we created with Will on Getting into Gaming Fundraising for out Bright Spot Members Club. In the middle of this episode Hannah mentions how helpful she’s found it to be a member of the Club since the start of the pandemic. If you’d like to find out more about all the training bundles (on today’s topic and LOTS more) and live weekly coaching sessions that Hannah and the rest of the club get access to, or to try for just a month, go to www.brightspotmembersclub.co.uk/join/

Want training, inspiration and support to increase fundraising income? You can find out more about the Major Gifts Mastery Programme; the Corporate Partnerships Mastery Programme or the Individual Giving Mastery Programme by following these links.

Free E-book. If you’d like to know powerful strategies to help you raise funds during the pandemic, then do check out my free E-book: Power Through The Pandemic – Seven ways to raise money with major donors, corporates and trusts, even now. You can download it for FREE here: brightspotfundraising.co.uk/power

Quote

‘Out of the 65 people who raised money for us through gaming this year, 63 were entirely new to us, and the key acquisition tool was Facebook advertising.’

Will Robinson

Full transcript of Episode 66

Rob:

Hello, and welcome to episode 66 of the Fundraising Bright Spots Podcast. This is a show for fundraisers who want ideas and maybe a dose of inspiration to help you enjoy your job and raise more money, especially during the pandemic. And today, I’m sharing the first half of a conversation I had recently with a very smart fundraiser named Will Robinson, who works for a fairly small charity called Become. In episode 62 of the show, Will’s colleague Davinia, shared some interesting ways in which her approach to team culture have helped them grow their fundraising results during the pandemic. One of those success stories has been the way Become has started working with the gaming community, encouraging them to raise funds for the charity.

To me, one of the really exciting things about their achievements is that of the 65 people who raised funds through gaming for Become this year, none of them had raised money for the charity in any way before. So this gaming initiative was the catalyst for lots of new supporters, and some of them have now raised funds for the charity on three separate occasions across the year. Gaming is such a valuable multi-million pound part of the entertainment industry. And in recent years, some charities have started to take it very seriously. If you haven’t done yet, but you want to find out more, I hope you find Will’s findings helpful. Will Robinson, welcome to the Fundraising Bright Spots Podcast!

Will:

Hey Rob, thanks for having me.

Rob:

You are very welcome. I’ve been looking forward to this ever since I had some interesting chats with your colleague Davinia, one of which, where actually we published on the podcast and I’ve just been so intrigued by some of the things you’ve been doing in the gaming community within the last 14, 15 months. And I was really keen to A, find out more, but B, share some of those ideas with our podcast listeners, but typically I’m getting ahead of myself. Just before we get going into the content, you are fundraising manager at Become, what’s the gist of your charity, Become? What does it do?

Will:

So we are a national charity supporting children in care and young care leavers, still quite a small charity. So I think we’re about 17 staff at the moment. And within that fundraising team that we’ve just grown to a team of five, but we’re going through a bit of a period of growth but yeah, that’s Become.

Rob:

Yeah and I was fortunate to chat to Davinia because she and her colleagues… she’s rightly proud of how well your charity has done during this crisis. Goodness knows it’s been tough. And maybe it wasn’t all plain sailing, but as far as I understand it, there has been really serious fundraising growth because of a bunch of things you’ve all been doing. And she talked about some of those on that other episode that I mentioned but one of them she mentioned is this new project you’ve been doing, working with the gaming community. Top line, what’s the nature of that activity, that proposition? And what were you asking people to do? And how well did it perform in this first one or two iterations?

Will:

Yeah. So I’ve been aware that gaming fundraising has kind of arrived on the charity scene, probably a good few years ago now but it’s been growing over the last kind of five years. So it’s been on my mind, that something I would love to bring to Become and that was kind of pre-pandemic and then the pandemic hits and it was kind of the ideal product to kind of fast track and help kind of plug a bit of that gap that we all felt with mass participation events all being disponed or delayed.

So what it was, essentially where we ask the general public and we wanted to ask both current gamers but also people who maybe haven’t gamed that much before to play a video game. And the challenge was called the Become Players Marathon. So it was to play a video game for a marathon length of time and fundraise for that, for us, through that challenge much like a traditional challenge event.

Rob:

And in terms of top line results, then really the meat of this interview is going to be lessons learned and how you did it. So if someone’s listening, they’ve been thinking about this and they just don’t know where to start, we’ll give them a boost and some encouragement to really go for it. But in your first year of doing it, top line, how many people did you get to do it? Top line, how much did you raise? Do you know the ROI?

Will:

Yep, yep. So we’ve hosted three kind of event weekends over our first year. So the total across that was we just raised over £16,000 and our expenditure was about 3000 for that. I’ll let you figure out the ROI on that one. And then in the very first event, which was like our pilot, we didn’t know how it was going to go. So this is what we hosted back in April 2020. Yeah.

We didn’t have big budgets, small charity. We spent just over £300 in total and that raised 5,000 or just over 5,000, which was like huge success for us and really encouraged us to carry on and invest a little bit more. But there’s so many variables around April last year, obviously we’d just got into lockdown one, PlayStations and Xboxes would just like empty off the shelves and in shops because so many people were buying them.

We were relatively new to market. So we were aware that there was a lot of things happening that maybe meant we were going to struggle to repeat that success, but we hosted pretty much the same event in March this year, 2021, to try and kind of minimize the variables so we can really compare. And we raised just over 8,000. So I think we’ve really proved the concept, which is really exciting because it is a more congested market now. And a lot of big charities have got involved in gaming fundraising but I think the fact that we’ve improved on success proves that there’s enough gamers out there for all of us. And I would really encourage them or charities to try it.

Rob:

Yeah. It really seems to me that this hobby is not going away any time soon. It really seems to be just growing evermore and it was clearly growing as an entertainment market long before the pandemic came along. In fact, to help the listener potentially to kind of really take more seriously this as potentially an important part of their portfolio, because still, I think although more players are getting into it, traditionally lots of charities, maybe because of the nature of how they’re led or the age and demographic of where the decision-makers are.

Some have not quite understood it or thought it was just for a particular age group or maybe we can come up with this a bit later, they’ve been kind of skeptical about some of the associations with violent-seeming games and so on. But before we come on to that, just help us tune into the fact that this is not a market most charities should be ignoring. You have to really look closely given that how many people in the population are week in, week out doing it as a way to spend time.

Will:

Yeah, absolutely. It’s not just teenage boys playing video games which is kind of a misconception. The demographics are across all ages, pretty evenly split between men and women and yeah, there’s people of all different kinds of identities and groups who game. And we’re really seeing that and those who support Become, I would say all charities will have some gamers within your current audience, we at Become had quite a small database. So we knew we had to reach new audiences and the vast majority of our supporters are completely new supporters to us but we did have a couple who were already engaged with Become, who were keen gamers. So I would definitely stress that every charity will have some gamers in their current newsletter list and audiences.

Rob:

And so in terms of how you got started right early on, I don’t know if you’re a keen gamer yourself and so that helped you already understand this community and its habits, what it was looking for? But right early on, how did you find out more to make that very first pilot something that you could get on and try?

Will:

Yeah, it’s a good question and myself, I’m a part-time gamer. I gamed quite a bit when I was younger, can easily go into it now, but I’m not like a regular gamer and I didn’t have a lot of the knowledge of the current scene. There’s a lot of unanswered questions that I had and we’re a really small team, we’re a team of three fundraisers at the time. So it would have taken me quite a bit of time to research all of those answers. So what was like hugely helpful is we already had one kind of just DIY gaming fundraiser who was great. He did the gaming marathoners off his own back in a couple of months before we launched and raised £150, so I can recognize his expertise and knowledge is a massive resource.

So I literally just got on the phone and just asked if he would be willing to be a bit of an advisor to me. He was chuffed, that felt really good for him so he got involved and was super helpful and answered a lot of the questions that I had. And really helped me fast track my own knowledge in to what I should be looking at and how I should be starting that event. And I did, yeah. I managed to avoid a couple of dead ends because of his advice, but there was plenty of-

Rob:

Sorry to interrupt.

Will:

That’s alright.

Rob:

Well, just to be clear, as I understand it, though your charity is not large and you don’t have a large database of supporters, my understanding from various chats with Davinia is people who do care about Become and what it stands for really care. Am I right to infer that this was a person who liked your charity and that the great work it does for children, young people in the care system, he liked you anyway, he cared anyway, and off his own bat, he decided that the best way or a way he wanted to raise money for you was by doing a mini gaming marathon and getting his mates to sponsor him to do that?

Will:

Yes, that is exactly right. Yeah so it was totally reacted to us that that first individual, yeah. And I just him and supported him like I would any other DIY fundraiser so it’s to try and bring them close to cause and build that strong relationship and show our gratitude and thanks. And yeah, after the event, we were able to continue to build that relationship and he was really excited to be able to offer his expertise, to help us build a bit more of a gaming community and a product for our charity.

Rob:

And that’s just, I know it’s obvious in a way, but it is such an interesting angle charities need to remember is that if people care about your cause, they may well enjoy giving you money, or they may well enjoy doing a pub quiz for you or a fun run for you or whatever. But yeah, the more we can see them holistically as not just in that kind of supporter who sends £5 a month, or the kind of supporter who is a company that supports, but we see them as the whole person. Usually if they care, their mission is not to be a person that gives you £5 a month or does a pub quiz for you. Their mission is to help the bigger picture of what you stand for and if you see them that way out of a particular narrow silo and just reach out and have deeper conversations, almost always, they’re really thrilled to be more valued for their wider expertise.

And some charities are really good at sort of connecting with the whole supporter but sometimes I think we can be reticent, especially larger charities can be reticent because any one kind of supporter tends to be managed according to the income stream that goes with it. But sometimes also we might be reticent about imposing on someone or not asking for too much. Whereas from this example and lots of others I’ve heard, I sense the opposite. I sense this person, because you’ve given them the opportunity to help in these other ways that really bring all of their expertise. It sounds to me like this person is more loyal and keen to help than ever before, precisely because you’ve asked him for more help.

Will:

Yeah. That’s definitely the case and that’s shared through a number of different gaming supporters now. Like I recognized that early on and knew that if I could ask more gamers to help, they would become more loyal to the cause and they absolutely have, and then some of them have taken part in multiple events for us now and they’re really close to community and are like intrinsic to the success of it now they’re really at the heart of it. And then that’s really wonderful, this is kind people and I’m so grateful to have relationships with them myself.

Rob:

Yeah and I’d love to go and drill deeper into various things you’re saying but for now, one thing that occurs to me is you mentioned you don’t have a massive database. So lots of this money that was raised through these three initiatives came from people who are brand new or relatively new. For the listeners out there, how do you go about promoting a project like this and finding those people who it might suit?

Will:

So that’s definitely true. We did a bit of a full evaluation the whole year recently. I think we had about 65 individual fundraisers who support us through the year and all of them financially support Become for the very first time because of gaming fundraising and only two of them were already on our database, but they hadn’t financially given or fundraised before. So 63 were entirely new to us and the key acquisition tool was Facebook advertising. Absolutely, we pushed quite a lot on organic social. And when we did use kind of Mailchimp to our current audiences, which had some success but Mailchimp ads kind of consistently across the three events recruited about 90% of our participants. And yeah, it’s a really successful tool.

Rob:

Hi, it’s Rob. And I just wanted to jump in really quickly to let you know about the Bright Spot Members Club, which is where we’ve published the full learning bundle that Will helped us to create. If you’re curious about how this training site works, rather than have me explain, I wanted you to hear from one of our members, Hannah, who joined in March 2020, and who’s made use of the resources ever since. She’s had a fantastic year, which has included doubling the income for her small arts charity compared to the year before COVID. And she credits the club with helping her to make this progress. Here’s what Hannah said about why she’s a member.

Hannah:

I think this way of learning for me just fits in much better with the with my workload. You’ve got so many different resources online that you can just tap into when you need them. And so many different experts that you brought to your program that actually, I think I would struggle to be able to persuade my board of trustees to spend hundreds of pounds sending me on a three, four day training course, when actually there’s a really good value for money in your series. And Rob, you bring some really fantastic speakers and professional fundraisers to your series. And some of the sessions may be very short, but actually that really suits my style of learning. So I think actually, I would say to someone, just give it a go.

Rob:

If you’d like to find out more about how the club works, go to brightspotmembersclub.co.uk/join. For now though, back to the interview, as I asked will for some more detail about how he promoted his gaming events.

In terms of Facebook, there is some budget needed then and therefore some risk that a charity would need to take on if they were going to do this, how did you manage that? Or did it become a no-brainer because you could see that investing X was generating Y number of people who are going to do the event?

Will:

Yeah, so that’s definitely what we were able to evidence after that first event. The first event, we didn’t know how successful it’s going to be. I was still pretty new to Facebook ads myself at the time. A lot of my expertise was self-taught, you don’t have to be a digital whizz, like you can learn. And yeah, we didn’t have a big budget. As I said, we invested 300 pounds and that was entirely on Facebook ads in that first event, that £300 generated about 500 leads. So it’s just like name, email, address, consent to contact. And from those, I think it was about an 8% conversion rate at the time, which was strong and went on to fundraise that £5,000.

Rob:

Yeah and clearly Facebook advertising is a technique that charities could use just to help with lots of different fundraising projects. Again, I know that lots of fundraisers are really good at this but for those of us who haven’t really done it before and it just seems like a dark art or something that’s really technical and you need to be an expert on it. Could you offer just one or two tips you found along the way or that you wouldn’t necessarily have known a couple of years ago to help someone that apply if they are to do Facebook advertising at all and to do it well?

Will:

I think you can do it pretty quickly and pretty well without even doing this testing. The beauty of Facebook ads is you can start like doing testing and it’s called split testing, and you can test different images against each other and then you can test different copy against each other, and then you can test different audiences against each other. And after a few rounds of testing, you know you’ve got this ad that has an image and copy that resonates with this particular audience. And then you can just continue to run that ad but at the very start, I didn’t know how to start. So you can just test, like really small budget. You can have £50 and just put a kind of successful organic ad. You can use evidence from organic post.

So if you have a post that had some engagement, you can just put some money behind that and see how it generates those leads. Because I would say the most success we’ve seen through Facebook ads has been for events recruitment at the moment. Yes, we also use it for our general appeals to raise donations. For rents recruitment is definitely been where we’ve seen the most success. So that’s where it is about generating those leads and a good tip, I would say is trying to gather the information within platform. So rather than sending them to your website to sign up there and give that email, name and consent to contact there, that’s a massive drop off point.

So if you actually gather that information within Facebook, so some people will see the post on their feed. They’ll be, “Oh that looks like a really exciting gaming challenge for a good cause. Yeah, I want to learn more. I’m going to enter.” They’ll quickly tackle the details, that’s really accessible, quick and simple and then you’ve got that lead and then you send an exciting first piece of communication. So we use Mailchimp, we try and send that within like 24 hours. And then you’ve got the next call to action, which may be to set up a JustGiving page or join another part of the community.

Rob:

Right.

Will:

Hope that helps.

Rob:

Yeah, thank you. And that reminds me of something else. I think I read a blog you wrote at one point about your learnings through this and that was to do with a different platform. I think it was called Discord. In fact, before we get to Discord, maybe the most useful thing is to talk about Twitch and of platforms like Twitch. Again, for gamers out there, apologies for my seeming ignorance. But for those of us who are not familiar with Twitch and the like, what is it? How does it work? How does it add value to the gaming experience generally or anyone doing some kind of streaming or sponsored event?

Will:

So, as I said earlier, our first gaming challenge, we’ve been targeting a really wide audience. So people who hadn’t really gamed before and some people who are like really veteran gamers. And what we saw was that we were getting a lot of people sign up and join who were beginner streamers. So what a streamer is, is someone who has a live feed, a live stream of themselves playing the video game to a platform like Twitch. Twitch is the biggest platform.

If you just search Twitch, just have a look yourself and you’ll see hundreds, thousands of gamers livestreaming themselves playing a video game. Usually they will commentate whilst playing and they’ll engage with a number of viewers who are watching them play live. And the viewers have a chat box, so they can ask questions or have a conversation. And then the streamer will be able to read that chat feed at the same time as playing the game and engage with that audience.

Rob:

Aha, great. So now I’m getting a strong sense of just why this works as a fundraiser because just like going on a fun run together or doing a pub quiz together or whatever it might be, so much of the gel is this human connection between people who care about the same things and/or are focused on the same topic. And it’s as much about the banter and the connection as it is about the fundraising challenge or the game itself.

Will:

Yeah, absolutely. Again, a good learning that we saw was that people set up their fundraising page, like maybe weeks in advance of the event, but a couple of days before… so we host our event over a specific weekend, a couple of days before we were on like £500 for that five grand. So I was like, oh this is doing okay. We were like, we’ve broke it even so it’s fine but it took me a lot of time, so I was a bit worried. But essentially when people stream, they fundraise during their stream. So a lot of people went from zero to £500 in an evening because they’re asking their live audience to donate, that’s who’s donating. We were really encouraging people, share it with your friends and family, just like a traditional fundraiser.

But so many of them would fundraise only with that audience that they have. But a lot of them have really strong bonds with their community. People who will come and watch them stream once a week or multiple times a week because either they consider them like a close friend, or they just love their chat and just really enjoy it. And it’s just a piece of entertainment for that viewer.

Or finally, the streamer may be really good at a specific game that a viewer likes to watch and pick up tips. So again, they’ve got really strong bonds and when the streamer is asking for donations, people would donate. And then there’s a whole other additional layer of asking for incentives and streamers will do funny things, they’ll paint something on their face if you donate £10. And yeah, streamers will come up with incredibly creative ways to incentivize their audience to make donations, which is great. So yeah, that five grand, vast majority of it came during the weekend of the event.

Rob:

Great, so is it true that like lots of fundraising, there’s complex reasons why someone might want to do a good thing for charity? And one of those in most cases is they care deeply about the cause and they really want to make the world a better place. But another of them is if there’s an element of gaining something in return. And I think I read in your blog that for many people, a part of the attraction of doing this for a charity is it’s an extra chance to grow followers.

Will:

Yeah, definitely. I’ve really seen where you can really align your goal with these kind of beginner streamers or a charity can align goals. So you can get like an everyone wins scenario, which is beautiful. So kind of the main goal of these beginner streamers is to grow the number of people who are watching their stream because ultimately Twitch essentially pays streamers per viewers.

So if you start getting like 100, 200, 500 viewers per stream, some of these streamers will be getting paid hundreds of pounds a month, if not thousands pounds a month. So some streamers once you get mid, high level streamers, it’s their full-time job. And that some of them are getting paid a lot of money by Twitch because it’s bringing, obviously, people to the platform and Twitch’s throwing some advertising out, obviously that’s their goal.

So that’s what the streamers want to do. They want to increase the number of viewers on their audience and a charity event can help do that. For one, it offers them a bit of a special event that they can engage their audience with and build up to over a number of weeks, be like, “Definitely come in on this weekend because we’re doing a charity event. It’s going to be great. There’s going to be incentives and it’s going to be so fun. You can help me paint my face.”

All of that an equally at the same time, we bring all these participants together into a community where they can all support each other. So they all give each other a follow, they’ll all drop into each others’ streams. What’s a really kind of exciting thing is something called raiding, where if you’re a streamer, you’ve got like 20 viewers watching you and you’re having a break. So you’re going to stop streaming for an hour, you can choose someone else’s stream to raid.

So you send your audience, those 20 viewers automatically to that other person’s stream. So is that really wonderful thing that we saw because all our participants were building really strong bonds with each other. They were raiding each other when they’re having breaks. So if you’re someone who has never had more than like three viewers on a stream before and suddenly you get raided by one of the friends you just met and now you’ve got 25 viewers for the first time.

Rob:

Wow, that’s so exciting.

Will:

That’s a big deal for that person and that was a huge opportunity for them to engage with them. And hopefully some of those viewers will give them a proper follow and maybe come back and watch them again. So a charity event can be a great opportunity for these small level streamers to build their audience.

Rob:

Yeah and I read if some of the people who joined you and raise money for you that first weekend and then definitely came back and raised more the next time and more the next time. And I’m getting a sense that it wasn’t just about the amount of money and the difference they were making. I just see how enjoyable this is, how thrilling this is to be part of this experience in various ways in addition to the good that it does.

I’m curious about way the kind of these bells and whistles that make that whole thing more fun. Is that something that on the platform, there are these various options to incentivize people to give in the next 10 minutes, so that I’ll do this challenge or, pitting donors against each other or are they on the Twitch platform anyway? Or did you create some kind of toolkit for things people could do and/or the difference an amount of money could make to your cause? And you already mentioned that a lot of it is just self-generated because these are creative people and they know what their audience likes or they know what they would find fun. What’s the mix of how you create that added value within the event?

Will:

Yeah. It’s a really good question because it’s something we’re working on now to help these new streamers build that all bells and whistles stream because for some of them, they don’t know the answer to that question. And they’ll look to us or the Become players community to ask for tips on how they can do it because they’ve got that ultimate goal of being a good streamer and building their audience, so they want all the bells and whistles.

So it’s a combination of what you just mentioned in terms of some things that we created for them. So I created literally on Canva so I didn’t use anything advanced. I would create cheat sheets, which can include a donations incentives lists. So if I donate £5, I’ll do X, £10, I’ll do Y but some of them can be blank so it encourages streamers to come up with their own fun incentives. And then beyond things that we create, yeah there’s kind of integrations between Twitch and fundraising platforms.

And the good thing for gaming fundraising is all the fundraising platforms are competing with each other to offer the best experience. So we’re using JustGiving at the moment, who will be pleased to hear me plugging them. We started using JustGiving at the start because I knew it, like I was comfortable with it. I didn’t have to learn a completely new platform, which always helps. And a lot of the general public, know and trust JustGiving but JustGiving to be fair are investing quite a lot in their integrations with Twitch. So that can be having a live donation bar on the Twitch stream.

So when someone’s streaming live, you can watch on the screen and you’ve got the donation bar. So when someone makes a donation, the bar goes up, et cetera, et cetera. But then there are other platforms out there so there’s one called Tiltify, which probably everyone’s heard of. So that’s a gaming fundraising only platform. It’s an American platform. They’re still learning the UK market and they are a bit expensive if you want to get all the data. So yeah, it’s not something we’re looking to use any anytime soon but it’s something to be aware of but to come back to your question, yeah. It’s a combination of things that we can create and integrations with a fundraising platform.

And something we’re doing right now is, there’s another gaming supporter, someone called Mike who’s awesome. And he’s chuffed to have been asked by me to create some how-to videos to do that integration. Because again, we always ask for feedback all the time and sometimes they’ll say, “Oh, maybe some more tips on how to actually get the fundraising started.” So we’re hoping to create those how-to videos with Mike’s volunteering help, which will quickly just guide people through. Simply go on JustGiving, you sign in, you make your page, you copy and paste this piece of code and paste it into Twitch. And suddenly they’re integrated and people can go donate live.

Rob:

Will, thank you so much. I’d love to go on and on but I know you’ve got plenty to get on with, go and get back to your day job but thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for sharing so many examples, tips of things you’ve learned along the way. I look forward to watching your charity’s continued activity in this space because it seems you’ve got plenty more plans and it’s working already and you’re determined to keep working with this community. Best of luck with your fundraising and I will catch up with you soon.

Will:

Great, thanks again for having me, Rob.

Rob:

Thanks Will. Bye-bye

Will:

Too.

Rob:

So I hope you found Will’s insights and advice were helpful. If so, do remember to subscribe to the fundraising Bright Spots podcast today so that you never miss an episode. For a full transcript and a summary of the episode, go to the podcast section of our website, which is brightspotfundraising.co.uk. As I say, this episode was an excerpt from the full film interview I did with Will as part of a learning bundle for the Bright Spot Members Club. If you want to see the full learning bundle, it’s one of dozens of films and weekly live fundraising master classes that we provide to fundraisers through the club.

To find out more, go to brightspotmembersclub.co.uk/join. Just before we finish, I’d like to say a big thank you to everyone who’s been spreading the word about this show on social media or to your colleagues, helping us to get this content out to as many charities as possible at a time when fundraising is so challenging and Will and I would love to hear what you think about this episode. We’re both on LinkedIn and on Twitter, Will is @Will_R0binson and I am @woods_rob. Thank you so much for listening today. Best of luck with your fundraising and I look forward to sharing more Bright Spot examples with you very soon.